Thread:Batran99/@comment-24838416-20141224180652/@comment-6812733-20141230175407

Batran99 wrote: Disturbedfan1100 wrote: Batran99 wrote: What if that guy is too lazy to work at all and he gets the same money as you?

If the economy is always like that, no one would make no effort to work hard and society cannot progress because everyone is paid the same thing no matter how hard they work.

We need to encourage workers to work and work hard, because it makes them percieve life stronger. But if everyone gets the same thing even if little effort, it makes them percieve life as "getting everything you want" and makes society lazy. So basicly what you're saying in this is that minimum wage is bad and it should be abolished because then people are too lazy to do anything. This is why you get into fights with others like Zeph or Zukas. You are the far-right while Zukas is the far-left, Zeph not liking the right-winged thoughts.

The answer is to use the goods of both systems. Everyone should get minimum wage which covers every need a person has from medical care to food and rent. But it needs to come out of your pocket, not from the government because that doesn't teach you the importance of money the correct way, it makes you think that you will always be taken care of no matter the situation. When you need to pay that all by yourself with the work you've done, it teaches you that if you slack or decide to not think your economic situation through, you will, in a sense, suffer. (That word was not the one that I'd like to use)

But at the same time while your living needs are taken care of, you should also get a little bonus for your extra effort. It wouldn't be taking anything from anyone, it would just show that if you want to try, you should and you'll get something out of it, not making you lazy. But it never should be something like you'll work bit extra and you now gain vast amounts of money compared to other workers, that would just be unfair and cause hatred between co-workers, possibly lowering the production/service efficiency of the work place. But it should never be something small, like you work an hour or two extra or maybe go to work on weekend and you get 10 bucks. That would be like spitting on your face when you've used valuable time and effort for doing something you might actually enjoy. I never said there shouldn't be minimum wage. I know people deserve these needs. But sometimes people should be encouraged to work hard and invent to improve these systems through promise of more rewards. Not gaining massive ammounts of wealth just for doing little effort. What (or at least I think) Zephyrus is saying is that everyone should have equal money no matter what. Which I would believe damages the system. What I am trying to say here is that aiming for more equal incomes through state intervention necessarily leads to a reduction in national income and therefore average income. If the government has more power, they would grow more authoritive to their citizens. It also stagnates advancement and progress.

PS: If you want to see far-right, you should see MrAmerican lolol. I am more into Liberal-Conservatism, if that is related. "What if that guy is too lazy to work at all and he gets the same money as you?" that's what you said and that's exactly what minimum wage means. You work at different pace yet you get the same exact amount of money.

So basicly you're saying that people need to always suffer so that the "survival of the fittest" goes through and the ones with enough wealth can succeed while the ones without the money die off to be your bridge across the river which is hardships. This is what gets you in fights with Zeph and Zukas. You don't seem to care about the little ones until it's too late. You said it yourself to Zeph that you'd be the rich one and then take care of the poor ones. That's a lie, the poor ones would be dead or gone in some other way before you could help them in anyway because you used them as your ladder to climb up to success.

What comes to national income, the more you care about the people the more they decide to support you (increasing productivity/service quality and work enjoyment, also this next wall of text will explain to you how it does that). The current method of the world is "work for living" which means that the majority of the workplaces and the governments doesn't give two shits about the worker. The "live for work" is very communistic thing to say but that's the way of doing it. You have to be there to help the worker to live, gaining you a lifetime friend in a good situation, meaning that they will help you if the going gets rough. That's why these days the method of "don't think what the country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" doesn't work unless it's a through and through patriotic person because that message right there says "we don't care about you, but you need to care about us". There's no reward in sight which makes people not wanting to help. But if you promise them a reward while still keeping everything affordable (minimum wage, exactly what I said, taking care of all life needs), you will get people working harder and harder because you show them that you will take care of them no matter what, you will aid them no matter what, but you still expect them to do the same for you if something goes wrong.